Transcript: Transition from Peer to CEO (EP33)
Brendan Rogers: Hello, everybody. I'm Brendan Rogers, the host of The Culture of Things podcast. This is Episode 33.
Today, I'm talking with Ian Lynch. Ian is the Chief Executive Officer of Pacific Link Housing. Pacific Link Housing is a Community Housing Provider and Registered Charity providing housing solutions for those in our community who have the greatest need.
Ian has worked locally on the Central Coast and overseas in a number of commercial companies in the IT, Hospitality, Sports Marketing and Insurance sectors. He's a qualified CPA with a strong finance background and a deep understanding of the community housing sector and supporting services.
Before taking on the CEO role in September 2019, Ian served as the Chief Financial Officer of Pacific Link Housing since June 2017.
It's this transition from CFO to CEO which is the focus of our conversation today.
Ian, welcome to The Culture of Things podcast.
Ian Lynch: Thank you. Thanks, Brendan. Good to be here.
Brendan Rogers: Mate, it's an absolute, I know I say this all the time, it's an absolute pleasure having you. But this interview has been more than 12 months in the making.
Ian Lynch: (Laughing) It has, it has. Maybe my doing.
Brendan Rogers: Mate, it is. But I think timing is fantastic. You know, you've been in the CEO role now for a little bit over 12 months and that's an area we're going to dive into, but I want to ask you a question first. Interesting in your background, when I was looking that up, and sports marketing, you've had a pretty diverse background in your experience, but we talk a bit about sport on The Culture of Things podcast. Sports marketing. Tell us a little bit about your involvement there. And I'd imagine there's maybe one or two pretty cool things you had the opportunity to do when you're involved in sport ‘cause it was in the UK as well, wasn't it?
Ian Lynch: Yeah. So I've been really fortunate to have some great experiences in my years so far. And one of them was working in the UK for a sports marketing company. They operated in the space of leasing out the space within the football stadiums to large national advertisers. I was in the finance team there, but I was really fortunate to get to do some great things such as corporate box dinner at Stamford Bridge, watching a Chelsea game. And, yeah, a number of other Premier League games.
Brendan Rogers: Mate, that sounds like a fantastic opportunity. Stamford Bridge doesn't do it for me. What about Anfield?
Ian Lynch: I thought you were Everton. (Laughing)
Brendan Rogers: (Laughing) Now, you're kidding, aren’t you? (Laughing) Did you get to go to Anfield?
Ian Lynch: No, I didn’t.
Brendan Rogers: Oh, mate. All right. Well, look. Stamford Bridge is not bad. I haven't actually been to Stamford Bridge, but all those Premier League grounds are fantastic opportunities to go to.
Ian Lynch: Yeah. And the atmosphere's just something you'll never forget.
Brendan Rogers: What I want you to do too before we get into our topic about this transition and some of the challenges, some of the experiences you've had moving from CFO to CEO, tell us a bit about Pacific Link Housing. Give us some background there, if you could.
Ian Lynch: So, Pacific Link Housing, a T1 Community Housing Provider. We're a Registered Charity and we're regulated by a national regulator. So, we manage over 1100 properties on the Central Coast, Lake Macquarie and up into Newcastle and the Hunter. Predominantly, social housing properties, so also affordable, and some private. We've also created a social enterprise real estate agency that the general public can be involved with. Any landlord that owns a rental property can choose to have their property managed by Key2 Realty. And in doing that, their profit’s a hundred percent, go back to Pacific Link Housing, the charity.
Brendan Rogers: In framing this up, it's a pretty big role. You said 1100 properties, lots of support that you guys are giving in the community for housing. Moving that into your CEO role then, when you were first offered this role, ‘cause I know you went through a process, what were your immediate feelings?
Ian Lynch: Yeah, I was already working for Pacific Link Housing for two years as the CFO, and the opportunity came up to express my interest in the vacant CEO role, and definitely, the feelings were apprehension, and it was something that took me quite a few weeks to overcome and actually go forward with the process. And it was the unknown, and in my head, I guess I'd build it up as a step too far in terms of my comfort level. And that's probably personality-type driven. Being a CFO, you tend to operate in the shadows of the organisation, in the background and the CEO is right up front in the spotlight. And that was something that I had to digest and overcome.
Brendan Rogers: Was there anything that excited you about the role when you first heard about the opportunity and started to process, “Hey, just maybe, I should go for this”?
Ian Lynch: Definitely. I really was excited. Underneath the apprehension, I was definitely excited and I definitely had the drive. So I guess observing within the company for the previous two years, I had ideas of things that I thought we could take further or perhaps in a slightly different direction, nothing major, but that opportunity as being the CEO and to give certain things different priority was really exciting to me.
Brendan Rogers: When you looked at, obviously over that two-year reflection of being CFO, working, all CFOs work really closely with the CEO anyway, what was it about the job of CEO that you liked or that you thought you would like based on your observation and also, what were maybe some aspects of the job you thought, “I’m not sure I would like that” given your observation and working closely with the CEO.
Ian Lynch: I guess one aspect definitely is the staff aspect. I had some exposure over these by virtue, often, CFOs are lumped, especially in a smaller organisation with HR duties. So I already had some experience with that and I, generally liked to see staff do well. So that was a big aspect that I thought it would, it excited me in implementing some things and it could just be as small as well as big, I guess as trying to introduce career paths within a smaller organisation. We’re an organisation of approximately 30 employees. That ability, I guess, as that leader to show recognition, promote a good culture was something that really interested me and got my imagination going from the early days. And as I said, just the prioritising of different things that I thought we could probably do a little bit better, for example, our positioning and the way we promote ourselves in the community.
We were fairly shy about it, I guess. And I thought there's a really big opportunity to take that forward, which sort of goes to the opposite of my apprehensions of being in the spotlight and that to come back to the question, the things that did frighten me was that spotlight. And I guess what would staff think about the promotion that I was getting? What would the Board think? How was I gonna go? How was I gonna deliver? And around the boardroom table, what would colleagues in the sector think about that? And I'm a fairly young CEO. And when I go to sector round tables that might have 20 CEOs sitting around the table, I'm by far the youngest and that's I guess a little bit frightening as a younger CEO.
Brendan Rogers: And we are gonna unpack a few of these things you said, but I just want to jump 12 months, 13, 14 months ahead now with some of those feelings, what's that look like in your own head now? And some of those, I guess we can say ‘limiting beliefs’ that you had.
Ian Lynch: The confidence has definitely grown and I guess time helps. And the biting off little bits at a time, taking another step forward and having the drive and in a belief, I guess, to push yourself to do these things like podcasts. (Laughing)
Brendan Rogers: Thank you for being here.
Ian Lynch: (Laughing) And just, we've had an unbelievable year. So, I guess looking back at the year we've just had, and I think about those 12 months that were my first 12 months as a CEO and the very first CEO role, we had bushfires and floods locally that affected some properties and we've had a pandemic. So there was some pretty big decisions that needed to be made over those 12 months and changing, significant changes to the way we operated internally and communications to be on top of and delivering really well. So I guess the year forced a lot of that development. It's given me the confidence for sure to keep progressing. And as an entity, we've taken some great steps forward despite all of those things occurring due to the quality management team that we've got in place as well, I have to say.
Brendan Rogers: Talking about some of those disasters, I suppose, you know, bushfires and local flooding definitely. And then, obviously, the pandemic, how have you felt those challenges have maybe advanced you sooner or have you felt that they've advanced you sooner than what you thought over this last 12 months? Given those challenges you've had to deal with?
Ian Lynch: I think they no doubt have advanced me faster than what I would have hoped for because there were some big decisions that needed to be made and some communication that had to be crystal clear. And not only to staff and the Board needed to be informed, but definitely, tenants, also government, a lot of those 1100 properties that we manage are owned by government.
Coming back to the communication, it's knowing what is the right time to say what. And using the COVID outbreak as an example, it was festering away slowly to begin with, but then, all of a sudden, very fast and there was a balancing act of what to say and when to the staff while we were making plans to transition to a hundred percent working remotely and the ability to reassure staff that everything was gonna be okay. And what was the appropriate time? And to, how far do you go to keep the board up to date? So how much detail do they need to know? And that's all a big balancing act that was learnt. And that was just an example, but that balancing act, I think, of communication has been a big learning over those 12 months.
Brendan Rogers: And over that time, that 12 months with all of those challenges, what's one thing that you, in hindsight, would have liked to have done differently?
Ian Lynch: I guess, giving myself a break. To be honest, I took on a lot. I think, personally, in the first 12 months that I probably didn't need to take on myself so much, there was probably opportunities to delegate a little bit more than what I did. But looking back on that year, there was, it was fast paced. There was a lot of things already in train, such as property developments, for example, that were ticking along. So the business needed to operate. And when these things came along that were outside the box, my first reaction was, “I'll deal with that. This is outside of the box that I'll take that on.” Looking back, there's probably things that I should have seeked a little bit more help on and not worked quite so many hours perhaps. (Laughing)
Brendan Rogers: It's a good reflection. Why did you feel that you needed to do that and take on that responsibility solely?
Ian Lynch: Good question. I don't really have an answer for that. I guess it just comes back to that CEO role and the buck stops with you and it's the ultimate responsibility and it's the due care to staff first and foremost, Board, tenants, stakeholders, the whole lot, and just making sure that things are happening while the business ticks along and does what it needs to do operationally.
Brendan Rogers: I think now's a good time. Let's jump back to the early days, moving from CFO to CEO, ‘cause you've just alluded to the team. You were a team member with your peers and other senior leaders as part of that leadership team. Now, you’re the leader of that leadership team. How did you manage the dynamics of the relationship change?
Ian Lynch: I was really lucky that the, we call ourselves a, it's quite sort of gone from a leadership team to an executive team, to management team, whatever we call ourselves. The people within that team were super supportive. And when the opportunity came up to take on that CEO role, I had people, those team members and board members coming to me saying, “You know, do it. What's holding you back?” And in fact, the lady who was the CEO that hired me at the time when I joined Pacific Link, she has since reverted back into the original role she started with, which was Governance and Compliance and on a part-time basis and happily reverted back to that role. And she was probably the biggest advocate saying, “You know, you've got this. You can do it. It's not that scary. Just get on and do it.” So that support was a huge help in terms of making that decision, the transition and the dynamics within the team just weren't there, there was no issues other than help, support that I think importantly was reciprocated. I definitely pride myself on what I hope I am in terms of being an open book and honesty and integrity and that “no surprises” philosophy that a lot of people that I've learned from and admired over the years, you know. It works both ways, and the benefits also go both ways.
Brendan Rogers: You mentioned two words, which are pretty common words, honesty and integrity. How does that play out in your own leadership style do you think?
Ian Lynch: I hope that it's quite evident. So, for example, and it comes back to the communication. So, in, particularly, the honesty, so I do a weekly update to all staff and I tell staff as much as I possibly can because I think that has benefits beyond the actual delivery and the knowledge of the information, but it's also the display of trust and ownership. Buy-in all of that is hopefully reflected in the culture of the organisation that we all know where we're going, why we do what we do, and why we work for the organisation, being though what it is, you know, why do we do what we do? It's that honesty and reciprocation of that honesty that I think is what the opportunity to develop that culture.
Brendan Rogers: Mate, I can second that. I know you are a very honest chap and we have some great conversations, and you're always pretty open about things. So I imagine that would show through in your leadership style. So, well done.
Ian Lynch: Thank you. (Laughing)
Brendan Rogers: I'm gonna dig a little bit. I know you said, “Maybe, no real issues and stuff, but there's gotta be something. Don't leave me hanging like this. I’m not saying you need to just share everything, but there's always challenges when that dynamic does change. Just tell us where that was, where that sat.
Ian Lynch: Honestly, internally, there's been no big problems, nothing that comes to mind that, you know, I can reflect on even. I think the only thing that I can probably delve into is that balance of communication and the timing and what is the right time and how much information to share. And the Board is the trickiest thing in my view. It's effectively the responsibility of the CEO to inform the Directors as to all the potential risks, problems, and good things that goes on in the company. And where does that line stop and start? There's no rule book and it's a learning, a constant learning that probably will never end. Of that, what is that balance?
Brendan Rogers: Yeah, it's a great point, and leads into where I really want to go is that relationship between you as the CEO, how that differed when you were CFO with the Board. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? In your experience, what that looks like from a CFO and then how that differed in your role now as a CEO and, maybe, where those challenges sat for you?
Ian Lynch: I guess I had a little bit of a smoother transition than what some people might be lucky enough to have in that the former CEO was already, I think it, well, he was contemplating the idea of leaving the organisation, positioning me as a predecessor. So I, for example, was attending the entire board meeting and not just coming in for the finance paper delivery. So I guess that it was a smoother transition, but certainly, that conduit between the Board and their organisational stakeholders broadly, that's much more in focus, and whether that's delivering of messages in terms of tweaking of strategies or communications, or we're doing our annual report right now, for example, that conduit. And because the Board don't want to hear potentially mixed messages or differing messages or the same messages from multiple management, the management team, it needs to come through one channel and that's got to be the CEO. I guess that's the biggest focus, and by nature, implies that the buck stops with you as well.
Brendan Rogers: Sounds like that was a really good experience and transition and mentoring, coaching sort of opportunity from the previous CEO. How has that played out for you having that experience and now you're in this role as CEO? And even though you may not be looking to move on anytime soon, but how that plays with your own coaching of your own team now?
Ian Lynch: I guess I've been lucky to actually learn from and watch a number of CEOs over different roles too. But then, the previous two CEOs within Pacific Link, there's not one CEO that I've, you know, wouldn't want to learn from. They all had something to bring to the table and certainly, a lot of different characters and just personality traits within that. And the most recent CEO of Pacific Link, he and I are polar opposites in terms of comfort levels and limelight, et cetera, and just grasping those opportunities to learn from those people, reflect on people that you've previously been managed by. Trying to package all that up and then absorb it, process it and deliver it to those that now report to you. And it's a never-ending learning journey. And also, what I try to make an effort to do is keep in contact with those past colleagues and bounce ideas off them, thoughts. I'm still in touch with the previous CEO and a couple of other past organisations, and they all can bring something to the table and especially the year that's been. And you know, how are you handling, you know, what are you doing for example, in terms of transitioning everyone to work from home and what does that look like for you and get some ideas, and especially being younger and on that learning curve somewhere.
Brendan Rogers: So what has been the biggest challenge, going into your own leadership, specifically in your leadership style? What has been the biggest challenge in this transition from the old, which was everyone in an office to this new working-from-home scenario and having to do it so quickly as well?
Ian Lynch: Communication, without a doubt. And as CEO, you want to be in touch with the staff. You want to be able to get the feel and the vibe of the office environment and, you know, are people under the pump. Are they stressed? Or are they relaxed and got too much time on their hands? That is lost. And that's difficult. So absolutely, more reliance on those Managers of the different teams for sure. And even in the delivery, for example, of a weekly staff update, it's effectively one-way traffic when it's via video conference. You are delivering and everyone else is on mute and you don't get that feedback that you do face-to-face. And, you know, sometimes, I go away from them thinking, did they get everything I was trying to get across? So, it’s absolutely the communication, and another one too I think that probably people can relate to is the trust within the organisation that yes, people are working from home, but yes, people are still doing their job. Is that team still operating as it should be? Because maybe, there's been a delay, and it hasn't been explained and, you know, what are they doing? Are they doing their job? Yes, they are. And the trust within the staff that, that is all on track. It is being monitored. And, it just comes back again to that communication.
Brendan Rogers: What have you had to change, if anything, within your own leadership style for your own leadership team too, ‘cause I'd imagine as a CEO, some of those things you just talked about, that maybe, there was some uncertainty about, do we have a handle on this stuff as an organisation? That wouldn't be something that, as a CEO, would just let bubble along and not know. So, what have you done about, or what have you had to change with your leadership and your own team to feel some comfort that we're still operating as an organisation, as a team focused on the important things that we need to focus on?
Ian Lynch: Increased the communication, definitely. So a lot more, you know, whether it's one-on-ones or team leadership team meetings, they've been increased. Just because I guess it's just, you don't have those conversations or over here, and, you know, there's less of that. It's not gossip, that's the wrong word, but the, you know, word gets around, this is happening. So you need to make that effort. And if you're having a conversation with someone and you think, “Oh, I wish, you know, such and such should be listening to this.” It's been good and bad. You can just dial someone in and say, “Hey, we're just talking about this,” and boom, they're right there two seconds later, or they're on another call or whatever, they're out in the field and you can't get them. And coming back to the question, the communication and that trust is there, and it's absolutely scaled back. I'm always encouraging the teams to make their own decisions. And for example, that is who's in the office when, and for how long teams make their own decisions. And that's something I definitely encourage and that I guess, empowers the managers to run the teams, their team, as they see fit. And they're all extremely capable too, which is the added bonus.
Brendan Rogers: I want to just move forward a little bit on, again, those two key words, leadership and teamwork. Again, in your CEO role now in comparison to CFO and then transition, I'd like to understand if this move has influenced you, or changed your perception about what real leadership and/or what real teamwork actually looks like for you and your organisation?
Ian Lynch: Yeah. I don't know that there would be too much to reflect on. I think that the, and I’m probably harping on it a little too much, but the importance of communication and the importance of clear messaging and over-communicating to an extent to make sure people are on the same page. And it's the reciprocation of that respect, honesty, integrity, et cetera. If you're portraying it, it will come back to you.
Brendan Rogers: Taking the learning experience, and we love hindsight. Isn't hindsight a great thing? You wish you had it before the event, right?
Ian Lynch: Absolutely. (Laughing)
Brendan Rogers: So in hindsight, is there something that really sticks out for you that when you moved into this new role that you really wish you had the benefit of hindsight when you first started in the role in those first few months, especially?
Ian Lynch: Probably two things, the confidence, the inner confidence that I lacked at the beginning, I wish I had from the start and that self-belief, and just to alleviate that apprehension and just get on with it. But secondly, and quite on the opposite end of the spectrum is that I did want to do it. And I was extremely excited to get on and do some little tweaks and chase some opportunities particularly, and it's managing that enthusiasm. So that new role, that new opportunity, and that might be any level of the organisation, but that you get that promotion. You've got some new opportunities now to do some new things, chase some new targets, whatever it might be. And knowing that that role is not going to disappear in three months, you can take your time and don't bite off more than you can chew because that’s gonna, you know, it could be your undoing ultimately. So managing that well would be probably a reflection that I would suggest for myself.
Brendan Rogers: And it's a great point I have to ask then, what was it? Was there a moment in time where that reflection came and you thought, “Yeah. Hey, that's what I should have done.”
Ian Lynch: It's probably not until now. It's been such a crazy 12 to 18 months. It's been really nonstop. And the events of the past 12 months has, whilst it's been terrible for a lot of people for our sector, particularly, that is the creation and the development of more social affordable housing, it's actually never been a bigger opportunity to make those points and get some runs on the board and some wins with government and funding and opportunities and things like that. So, it's been a combination of managing, you know, what's effectively a crisis and adapting to new ways of doing business, but also, the sector in terms of opportunity is the biggest opportunity since the GFC. In GFC, there was the delivery of NRAS under the Rudd Government and a lot of schemes that went to the creation of more social housing. This is a similar opportunity. So there's a lot of advocacy work to be done, meetings to participate in, submissions to have written, et cetera, et cetera. So, I guess that break and reflection isn't really coming until now. (Laughing)
Brendan Rogers: Well, it's certainly still great reflection, mate. It doesn't matter when it happens as long as it happens.
Ian Lynch: Yeah. (Laughing)
Brendan Rogers: On the other side of that coin, there's always two sides to the coin, right? What are the traits, the qualities in you as a person, which you think has transferred really well into achieving some level of success in your new role?
Ian Lynch: I think that my natural personality is I'm fairly modest and I've found that compared to other people that I've watched in different organisations that were perhaps a bit more gung ho, it seems to be working in that, and got a bit of a running joke with some of the staff internally, “If you don't ask, you don't get.” And the asking always gets put to me, because for some reason, people don't often say no when I ask a question and perhaps it's the way I do it, or the open, honest way in which I approach it is working. I think that's definitely of a benefit.
Brendan Rogers: Mate, I know you've got a young family. I think you said, a two- and a four-year old and obviously, a beautiful, loving wife who's probably very, very accepting of the responsibilities that you have. But how do you balance the challenges of being a CEO, being this leader in an organisation and family life?
Ian Lynch: So, firstly, I should point out that yes, she is definitely beautiful. Luckily too, she's actually an EA. So she works for Deloitte and she's an Executive Assistant to a number of partners. So she sort of doubles up with some help for me as well. More so, just that she, as an EA, you get some really great insights into leadership and she's a fantastic sounding board for myself. Additionally, with the two kids, so age 2 and 4 ½, it's absolutely a juggling act. And switching from CEO to five minutes later, picking them up from daycare. It's a big change in mindset. So it's just trying to manage that balance as best you can and manage the peaks and troughs of the organisational demands and allowing for that. So it might be that you need to manage your hours within the day. And some of those hours go into the night after the bed and bath routine. And that's just a fact of life. And it's part of the responsibility as being a CEO.
Brendan Rogers: Another question burning now from that, I had no idea Danielle was an Executive Assistant. What's the best advice she's given you for your new role?
Ian Lynch: I think, the best advice, and it's probably what any great wife would do is just that unconditional support and “You can do it.”
Brendan Rogers: Mate, you're not far out the hot seat. We haven't got long to go. All right? (Laughing) Final piece of advice. I want you to share, anybody considering a move from a, whether it be a CFO role or a senior leadership role and moving into the ultimate leadership role of a CEO leading an organisation, what would that advice be given your experience of making the transition?
Ian Lynch: Really good question. On reflection, I would suggest that the relationships that you have developed and fostered within your, call it inner circle, which sounds a little bit cliche, and whether that's your other colleagues in similar roles across the organisation, or up or down, or Board or sector. So let's call it your network or, yeah, a couple of mentors, whatever it is. If I'd heard myself saying this about five years ago, I'd be rolling my eyes saying, thinking that is so cliche, but having been through it, it's so important to have quality people around you because there is, and a diverse mix too, because there's occasions and experiences and questions that will need to be asked to that diverse group of people. And having that, and as much on tap as you can is pure gold.
Brendan Rogers: Last question. How can people get hold of you?
Ian Lynch: The best way to get hold of me is detail’s on the website. So they're through the firstname.lastname@example.org and emails can get filtered through to me that way. The reason I give the email address out is we get approached a lot from all sorts of people. And whether that's trying to do business, it's trying to talk about grants, et cetera, that's the best way. In terms of the social enterprise real estate agency, the website is www.key2realty.com.au. Those property investors that might have rental properties on the Central Coast I’d really love you to get in contact with those guys and let your property do some good for the community.
Brendan Rogers: Excellent, mate. And I know you're not a massive user of LinkedIn, but you're on LinkedIn and you do look at messages from time to time so people can get you on LinkedIn as well.
Ian Lynch: Yes, I should have said that too. (Laughing) Yeah, definitely, you can find me on LinkedIn.
Brendan Rogers: Ian, I just want to say a massive thank you, mate. It's been a pleasure and really worthwhile waiting 12 months.
Ian Lynch: Yeah, I hope so. It's been really enjoyable.
Brendan Rogers: Mate, I've enjoyed having you. Thanks very much. Fantastic work that you and the team at Pacific Link Housing are doing. Well done. Keep it up. Unfortunately, it is a much needed service on the Central Coast and I say that, unfortunately, because you know, we wish these things didn't have to happen, but there's always people in need. You guys are doing a fantastic job for the community. Well done on your own leadership in making the transition. I know that we'll keep moving. You'll keep learning, keep improving and keep developing an even stronger team at Pacific Link Housing. So, mate, thanks for coming on The Culture of Things podcast today. I really appreciate it.
Ian Lynch: No worries. Thanks for having me.
Brendan Rogers: It was so good to finally sit down with Ian and chat about his first 12 months of moving from the CFO role to CEO. When we initially talked about doing this, he hadn't been in the role very long. In hindsight, would have been a mistake to have this conversation so early in his tenure. With the year that has been and with this link to his transition, it has created a more powerful learning opportunity, which Ian has been able to share with us today.
These were my three key takeaways from my conversation with Ian.
My first key takeaway. Leaders must communicate, communicate, communicate. It Isn't just about communicating for the sake of communicating. Communication must be open and honest, purposeful, and always contains simple, consistent messaging. This helps avoid confusion within the organisation. Have you ever heard of a person leaving an organisation because the leader communicates too much? Leaders must communicate, communicate, communicate.
My second key takeaway. Leaders are excited by building a great culture. If you are leading people and the people stuff doesn't excite you, then you shouldn't be leading people. It's not that there isn't a place for you, but that place is an individual-contributor type role. Building a great culture, which involves developing people, is the most important role of any leader.
My third key takeaway. Leaders surround themselves with quality people. They build and maintain relationships with many different people. Leaders appreciate diversity and background and experience. They know this is what helps the team view problems through a different lens and allows for better solutions. They aren't intimidated by having quality people around them. In fact, they thrive on it.
So in summary, my three key takeaways were: leaders must communicate, communicate, communicate; leaders are excited by building a great culture; leaders surround themselves with quality people.
If you have any questions or feedback about this episode, please feel free to send me a message at email@example.com.
Thank you for listening. Stay safe. Until next time.
Outtro (music): Thank you for listening to The Culture of Things podcast with Brendan Rogers. Please visit brendanrogers.com.au to access the show notes. If you love The Culture of Things podcast, please subscribe, rate and give a review on Apple podcasts and remember a healthy culture is your competitive advantage.